In financial services, differentiation is key to success, so many financial advisors are left wondering how to stand out in the crowd. For some, telling their s♛tories via video, podcasts, and well-designed websites helps accomplish that. But how—and where—to start? In this episode of The Deep Dive, host Jay Hummel talks with media expert Paul Herdtner of Avra Group Consulting on how to get a content plan off the ground.

Paul Herdtner: Paul Herdtner is the founder of Avra Group Consulting, which collaborates with clients on a range of services, from PR and media training to content creation and crisis management. Paul has married his two distinct careers: First as a TV journalist and then as a corporate communications executive specializing in the wealth/asset management industry. He’s a graduate of Syracuse University and resides in the Kansas City area.

Video Transcript

[00:00:05.92] - Jay Hummel

Hi, this is Jay Hummel. Welcome to "The Deep Dive" in collaboration with Investopedia. We get a lot of questions from advisors. Should they do a podcast? How do they position themselves as experts? And I don't think we could have a better person on the show today to help advisors think about that than Paul Herdtner, the CEO of Avra. Paul, thanks for coming on the show.

[00:00:25.94] - Paul Herdtner

You bet, Jay. It's good to see you.

Paul's Background and the Creation of Avra

[00:00:27.54] - Jay Hummel

Give the viewers a little bit about you. You have a very, very interesting background that I think—  normally, I try to cut people off, as you know, because they come on the show and they want to give like a five-minute dissertation about what they've done in their life, which pisses me off. But I think your background is really interesting.

[00:00:45.90] - Paul Herdtner

I'm flattered you find it interesting, and I'll try to keep it shorter than five minutes. First, a quick primer on Avra Group consulting. We like to solve difficult problems for clients. Whether that is a crisis and issues management situation, a content strategy that includes high-end video production, or media training, we like to take these really thorny problems and solve them for clients.

This is our second year in business, but this company really is a confluence of all of the things that I've done professionally over the last 30-plus years. The first half of my life and career was spent in the television news business, so I was the guy when you flipped on the news at 5:00, 6:00, or 11:00.

In 2009, I transitioned from the TV news business to corporate communications and public relations. My first job out of the TV news business was running PR and corporate communications for a company that was one of the country's biggest RIAs at that time. It was the Mutual Fund Store, the company that Adam Bold started.

A couple of years later, I was the head of corporate communications for American Century Investments, the asset management firm. I've also done the same job for some other large companies. So I'm taking these two bits of careers and kind of mashing them together and creating Avra.

Differentiating Advisors in a Crowded Market

[00:02:17.10] - Jay Hummel

That's awesome. Well, you and I talk a lot about how advisors must differentiate themselves, right? That's why part of the point of this show is to help advisors better run their businesses or home offices to support advisors. How do advisors better position themselves as experts?

Because, as you know, if you're an end customer, you're getting prospected by 10, 12, 15 wealth management firms and advisors at any point in time. How do they differentiate themselves? My belief is they need to position themselves as an expert. And how do they do that?

[00:03:00.39] - Paul Herdtner

I think you find the thing that you want to be an expert about, or that you are an expert about, and really exploit that. And I think one of the best ways today to do that is to be your own newsroom, basically. It doesn't cost a lot of money today to be somebody who creates content for yourself.

This doesn't have to be something on a network news broadcast. For example, using an iPhone selfie or a kind of video. It doesn't cost a ton of money. You don't need to make a huge investment in lights and equipment. But you can take what you have and take the knowledge that's in your brain and put it out there so that you're easily found.

When people stumble across your content, they realize, "OK, this is this really smart person. This is really great insight." You could also use it as outbound collateral when you are prospecting for clients or reassuring existing ones. Maybe it's market updates. Maybe you put out, on January 5 of every year, this is what we think is happening with the markets.

However, I think differentiating yourself from your competition is critical in any business. But in a flooded FA and RIA market, you've got to take those things and show the world that you're really good at that.

Search Engine Optimization in the Advisor Space

[00:04:26.83] - Jay Hummel

I got a question this morning on a call before we were taping this about search engine optimization. What are you doing for SEO? How🐼 do you think firms should think about search engine optimization, if they should at all?

[00:04:51.80] - Paul Herdtner

Well, certainly you should, because everybody who has a website—and that really should be everybody who has a business—to a degree, you are beholden to the spiders that crawl all over the internet through Google. You want to make sure that you're showing up the right way. There was a time, not that long ago, when companies and marketing firms were jamming every keyword they could think of into blogs, for example, or into the copy that you have on your website.

That's not the way to do it anymore. In fact, it hasn't been the way to do it for many years at this point. And frankly, it didn't read well when they were doing it that way. You have to appeal to a human first.

So you make sure you're putting content out there, that your website spells out who you are, what you do, and how folks can get in touch with you, and then let the organic messaging carry the day from an SEO standpoint.

The Case for Advisors to Start Podcasts

[00:05:53.17] - Jay Hummel

Yeah. And then just switching off that; obviously, you're on this podcast. You've been involved and been helpful to me doing this podcast over the last four years. I've made this up as we go, which most viewers could figure out. Should advisors be doing podcasts? Should they be doing these kinds of things to differentiate themselves?

[00:06:24.35] - Paul Herdtner

I'll answer that in a second, but let me clarify it for the record. You're really good at this, especially for a guy with no on-camera training. You're somebody who gets out there and knows how to be yourself in front of a camera, which is really valuable.

To answer the question: Last I checked, there were literally millions of podcasts in the United States alone. So podcasts have become the new blog, where many people just realize, OK, there are a lot of podcasts, and I should be there, too. It's just a natural reaction by a lot of folks.

That's what blogs were 10 or 12 years ago. And I would argue with folks back then: go ahead and do a blog if you have something to say and know how to create an editorial calendar, so it's not a hodgepodge.

For too many people, it's a one-off. Look at the number of podcasts that started a handful of years ago, especially during the pandemic, that are still in production today. It shrinks the number way down.

So you're going from 3, 4 million down to maybe 150,000, which is still a lot, don't get me wrong. But your competitive set is not this monstrous number that people think of when they think of podcasts. So if you want to do it, great. Here's what I would say:

Make sure you have a differentiated point of view. And that could be a whole variety of things. If you can get granular, you can find that niche audience that could grab on to you and become super devoted to what you're saying. And make sure you're doing it consistently.

It doesn't necessarily have to be every Tuesday at 10:00 that you publish, but make sure that you have a certain editorial and calendarized cadence to it so that if you do develop an audience, they know when to find you and how.

Staying Consistent With Content Creation

[00:08:11.19] - Jay Hummel

I agree with that. And it’s interesting because people want instant results when they create content like this. But as you mentioned, you're not building that long-term audience if you're not doing it consistently. You see a lot of podcasts, as you mentioned, that start off and then fizzle out. So, how do advisors stay on track with this and stay motivated to keep producing content even when the early results might not be as big as they want?

[00:08:41.08] - Paul Herdtner

Yeah, I think you hit on something there. People want to see that immediate ROI. But podcasting, like many other things in marketing, is a long game. If you look at the most successful podcasts out there, the ones that have been around for a while, they've stuck with it and built a devoted audience over time. That doesn't happen overnight.

I think the most important thing is to be patient and trust the process. It's also helpful to have a strategy in place. Maybe the strategy is to produce a certain number of episodes over a set period, like once a week for 12 weeks. After 12 weeks, you can evaluate the engagement and see if you want to tweak your content or the format of your podcast.

Another thing is to involve your audience early on. Ask them questions and get their feedback. This can help you refine the direction of your podcast, but it also makes your listeners feel invested in the process. If they see that you care about their input, they'll be more likely to stay engaged.

How Advisors Should Handle Guest Appearances

[00:09:36.99] - Jay Hummel

That’s great advice. Another issue that I think comes up often when people are considering starti💯ng a podcast is the guest issue. Should they have guests on their show, or should it just be them talking? What are your thoughts on bringing in outside guests to help generate more interest and keep the podcast fresh?

[00:09:59.41] - Paul Herdtner

Having guests on your show can be a fantastic idea, especially when you're first starting out. It adds a layer of diversity to the content and gives your listeners different perspectives. You can bring in subject-matter experts or influencers in your niche, which can help build your network. The reality is that when you have a guest on your show, you're leveraging their audience, too. They will promote it, which will help you reach new listeners.

However, it's important to ensure that the guests you bring on align with your goals and your brand. You want guests who bring value to the conversation and are genuinely interested in your audience. So, while it’s a great strategy, you want to make sure you're still offering something of value to your listeners.

[00:10:44.01] - Jay Hummel

I think that makes sense. And it also keeps it from feeling repetitive, right? Because if it’s just you, even though you’re an expert in your field, it can start to feel like you're only offering one perspective. Bringing in guests helps keep things fresh and engaging for your audience.

[00:10:59.56] - Paul Herdtner

Exactly. And the beauty of podcasts is that you can experiment with the format. You might try a few solo episodes, then bring on a guest. Try different types of guests, whether they're from within the financial industry or outside of it. Every guest brings something new to the table, which keeps the content dynamic.

The Power of Personal Branding Throug𝄹h Podcasting

[00:11:28.12] - Jay Hummel

That’s true. And you mentioned branding earlier. I want to talk more about personal branding. For advisors, it’s not just about creating content—it’s also about building that personal brand and making sure they stand out. What role does personal branding play 🌃in the content creation process, particularly when it comes to something like a podcast?

[00:11:49.66] - Paul Herdtner

Personal branding is absolutely essential, and it's really the foundation of all content creation. When you create content, whether it's a podcast, a blog post, or a video, you're building a digital footprint that represents you as an individual, your expertise, and your values. Over time, that digital footprint is what people will associate with you, and it helps build trust.

I think the best personal brands are authentic and true to who the person really is. For advisors, it's important that their content doesn’t just talk about the technical side of wealth management. It should also communicate their personality, values, and why they care about helping people. This is what creates connections and makes them more memorable.

[00:12:34.13] - Jay Hummel

Right, because at the end of the day, clients trust you with their finances, which is a personal thing. And they want to know who you are as a person, not just as 𓃲a financial professional.

[00:12:45.51] - Paul Herdtner

Exactly. I think that’s where a lot of podcasts fail. They focus too much on being overly formal or only talking about technical details, and they for༺get that listeners want to get to know the person behind the brand. That authenticity and vulnerability can create a stronger connection with your audience.

Measuring Success

[00:13:09.60] - Jay Hummel

That's a great point. So, let’s talk about measurement. How do you measure the success of a podcast? It’s not just about the number of downloads, right? Are there other metrics that you look at to gauge whether a podcast is achieving its goals?

[00:13:26.21] - Paul Herdtner

There are definitely other metrics to consider. While downloads are important, they don’t tell the💜 whole story. One key metric is engagement—how much are your listeners interacting with your content? Are they commenting on your social media posts? Are they reaching out to♈ you directly because of something they heard in your podcast?

Another important measure is lead generation. Are you getting more inquiries or con💃sultations as a result of your podcast? This is the ultimate ROI, right? Are you attracting your ideal clients and building relationships with them?

And then, of course, there’s listener retention. Are your listeners coming back for every new episode? If they are, 😼that’s a sign that you’r🔯e delivering value and keeping them engaged. So, yes, the number of downloads matters, but it’s only part of the equation.

Closing Thoughts

[00:14:12.77] - Jay Hummel

I love that. It’s about building relationships and engaging with your audience, not just the numbers. Thanks so much for sharing your insights today𓆉, Paul. This has been really valuable.

[00:14:21.16] - Paul Herdtner

It was my pleasure, Jay. Thanks for having me.

[00:14:23.56] - Jay Hummel

Absolutely. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We’ll see you next time.